Victim in DUI-manslaughter case deserved better, and so did the Marine charged with killing him
By Sue Carlton, Times Columnist
In Print: Wednesday, August 31, 2011
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A DUI-manslaughter trial is about the saddest thing you can sit through.
Usually the victim was someone just driving along trying to get where he was going. The accused often has no record, just that colossally stupid moment when he slid behind the wheel and turned the key. Lives get ruined for nothing, and no number of prison years will make it right.
The DUI-manslaughter case against Scott Sciple, a Marine who saw intense combat but never got the mental help he needed in a warrior culture that discourages weakness, takes that kind of loss and sadness up a notch.
To be clear, it's hard to imagine a more innocent victim than Pedro Rivera, a father, husband and mother's favorite son killed last year. A mechanic, he was headed home after a late-night mercy mission to help a friend on the highway when Sciple came driving the wrong way on I-275. Police said he'd had three times the legal limit.
So it would be easy to dismiss Sciple as a man deserving any punishment a judge could come up with. But his case turns out to be about responsibility, too, to people who serve in our military, live through what we could not imagine and are marked by it.
As the Times' John Barry recently reported, Sciple was a war hero who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, survived four combat tours and was awarded three Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star for valor. He saw dead children and mass casualties and saved wounded fellow Marines. He kept going back. He was riddled with shrapnel and a rocket blast blew open his arm. And not all his wounds were visible.
He started acting strange, worrying friends, family and colleagues. But he told his father showing weakness could kill a Marine's career.
A Marine Corps report later found he was suffering post traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury and had "dissociative episodes" in which he didn't remember what happened. But he had never gotten a neurological workup. He was seen as fit for duty and sent to MacDill Air Force Base. Less than 48 hours later, an innocent man was killed.
At his trial, the prosecution will likely talk about Sciple's personal responsibility that night, much of which he says he doesn't remember. His attorney, John Fitzgibbons, plans to ask for a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity. Under the law, he will argue Sciple had a mental infirmity that kept him from knowing what he was doing, or from knowing it was wrong. A not-guilty verdict would put him in treatment instead of prison.
And I would not want to be on that jury, looking into the faces of Rivera's family, and then at the combat veteran at the defense table, a man even the Marines say should have been treated, not sent here.
The Corps' straightforward and unflinchingly inward-looking 860-page report concludes Sciple was "incapable of making fully informed cognitive decisions" and suffered documented memory loss and blackouts. It talks of a flawed system that relies on traumatized combat vets to report on themselves even in a "Marine Corps warrior culture" that stigmatizes it. It talks change.
If any good can come from this, change is it. Change means powerful people in Washington pushing for better rules to evaluate and support the ones we send into battle, to keep this kind of tragedy from happening again.
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Viewing 1 - 10 of 10 comments Oldest First Newest First Top Rated
Karl24 Aug 30, 2011 7:09 PM Yesterday Good article Sue. Well thought out.
Reply
Report Abuse 3 2 cab2345 Aug 30, 2011 7:18 PM Yesterday Agreed. This one tears me at both sides. I'd hate to be on that jury. Reply
Report Abuse 3 1 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 8:15 PM Yesterday Lives get ruined for nothing, and no number of prison years will make it right, The life was not ruined for"nothing" .. if you're not in the right mind to kill how do you get in the right mind to find enough booze to get enough wasted????? The story has many flaws. And for instance I know people wounded worse than he who wouldn't harm a fly never mind manage to find enough booze to do this. As well, his family bears responsibility. This is not a hard decision, his family could have called 911 for his protection BEFORE he hurt this other man. Now, after the fact we're all supposed to go: OH MY BAD. I have sympathy and I know he needs help but plenty others get sent to prison even war vets and vietnam vets and nary a blink. What's UP with this one?? Two articles in two days. Too much too little too late. Reply
Report Abuse 3 3 letgo Aug 31, 2011 12:21 AM About 4 hours ago I agree!!!!! Reply
Report Abuse 0 2 fuzzydog Aug 30, 2011 7:18 PM Yesterday Sad all around. Fitz may you succeed.
Reply
Report Abuse 4 0 madge Aug 30, 2011 7:20 PM Yesterday I feel so sorry for both families. I can't imagine what the Rivera family is going through but, I'm sorry, I feel Sciple should get treatment not prison. My son did tell me that it is so true that telling you need help ruins your career. Forget re-enlisting.
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Report Abuse 4 1 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 7:34 PM Yesterday Okay, enough is enough. We have had marines going home committing suicide like it's the thing to do, murdering others and their families like it's normal BUT THIS ???? THIS??? is what we're going to go up in arms against? Don't stand for it Mama Rivera. Your boy DID deserve better. THIS guy has now been revealed by TWO articles barely covering we had a victim DEAD here and every person crowing for him has a loyalty to Robert O'Neill Three (four) green fields the Irish Republican Army headquarters on PLATT st. Including the author of THIS TRASH, sue carleton who drinks there quite regularly. ENOUGH. Fitzgibbons NOMINATED O'NEILL for his current job as USA florida id. Oneill owns the IRA dump. WHAT is sciples relationship to THEM???Something STANKS here.
Reply
Report Abuse 3 3 madge Aug 30, 2011 8:00 PM Yesterday What are you going on about and what has this got to do with Robert O'Neill? Try proof-reading. Reply
Report Abuse 3 0 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 8:28 PM Yesterday madge, it' simple. And I offer your advice back. Fitz tries his cases in the media, he floats them and this hack helps him to see how the sympathy will play out. Same as with debra lafave and another one recently. BUT there can be no mere monetary thang with a military family (where's the dinero?) to supply a media blitz LIKE THIS. Sue, who does have ties and socializes lets say at four green fields provides this trial by media with an agenda in mind. NOW, if Fitzgibbons PUSHED O'Neill for a TOP and undeserved LEO spot BECAUSE Fitz sits on that committee and ONeill owns the bar which Fitz and Sue frequent ... THIS guy or his family fit in that picture SOMEWHERE and it ain't just a lawyer client relationship. Now, unless you have been DEAD you know as do all others in Tamap and Mass and COnn. AND BEYOND to wash dc and other places that O'Neills DUMP of a bar is IRA. if you didn't just google it. This was well covered by SPT sue martin a true journalist. Don't be coy, madge. Reply
Report Abuse 1 3 Penniless Park Aug 30, 2011 10:28 PM Yesterday Down, boy. Now get back on yer meds. Reply
Report Abuse 3 1 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 7:37 PM Yesterday Seems I remember Sue also sticking up for MADD. Mysteriously, MADD has remained silent on THIS ONE??? What's up with that MADD?
Reply
Report Abuse 1 4 elainec Aug 30, 2011 7:41 PM Yesterday Being a combat veteran is not a license to drive drunk and kill. Sciple's dissociative episodes were likely blackouts. Dig a little deeper and you will probably find Sciple was drinking alcoholically before he ever enlisted. That colossally stupid moment the writer alludes to was more than a moment of stupidity. The victim here, and make no mistake it is not Sciple, deserves all the respect being heaped upon Sciple.
Reply
Report Abuse 3 2 madge Aug 30, 2011 7:55 PM Yesterday If he WERE an alcoholic before he enlisted do you think the Marines would take the blame for it? I believe they have ways to diagnose dissociative disorder without guessing that maybe it's not from drinking. And yes, the victim is Rivera but Sciple needs treatment, not prison. Reply
Report Abuse 4 0 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 8:32 PM Yesterday Madge, the marines and every branch of the service has a political agenda. Again you are being coy. What of the Iraq soldier shot in his doorway? How many tours until home to a trailer in zhills? What wounds? Who cares? exactly. The ARMY spent years and a Congressional hearing covering up the MURDER of Pat Tillman. Stop it. Of course the Marines wouold write a fifty thousand page report BUT ONLY if it came from ON HIGH. Reply
Report Abuse 2 2 elainec Aug 30, 2011 8:49 PM Yesterday Do you think he told them? Reply
Report Abuse 0 3 elainec Aug 30, 2011 8:50 PM Yesterday Prison is where criminals get their treatment. Reply
Report Abuse 1 3 kenzo125 Aug 30, 2011 9:14 PM Yesterday The military is no doubt doing major damage to the young people who enlist by continuing in these pointless losing wars. Our servicemen are NOT coming back all-right and they are not coming back to much, it is a repeat of Vietnam. Perhaps the Marines (likewise the entire Military) do deserve some blame here, and elsewhere, for failing to take care of their own and bring attention to red flags that an individual is not functioning properly. Still I see a major problem with allowing PTSD as a defense for criminal activity, it opens up a very big can of worms.
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Report Abuse 1 3
WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 4:55 AM Less than a minute ago kenzo, I was thinking of bringing that up BUT when you've watched these yokels in action long enough you realize THE WOOKIE defense is just for this one guy. Then it's GONE.
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Report Abuse luckydog Aug 30, 2011 11:20 PM Yesterday The dead man is a victim. So is the Marine. The 'system' failed both of these men.
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Report Abuse 2 2 elainec Aug 30, 2011 11:24 PM Yesterday Sciple is no victim. Nobody poured alcohol down his throat. Reply
Report Abuse 3 3 luckydog Aug 30, 2011 11:26 PM Yesterday There is no mental help available until a crime is committed. Think of how many crimes are because no help was available. The congresswoman being shot is another example. Take the illegals out, and open some mental hospitals, for Americans who need help.
Reply
Report Abuse 0 2 elainec Aug 31, 2011 3:13 AM About 1 hour ago AA is free, and everywhere. Reply
Report Abuse 1 0 letgo Aug 31, 2011 12:28 AM About 4 hours ago this ole boy is gonna walk. I already know.
Reply
Report Abuse 2 2
WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 4:58 AM Less than a minute ago Yes. likely but he's been drunk three times AND GOLFING while he was waiting THIS trial .... so he won't be walking for long... and WHO can GOLF after they've killed someone? WTF??? Seems to me mom and dad sciple know they have a sociopath on their hands and so dad invents things his son SHOULD have said. Let him sober up in prison dad. It might just be time for him to grow up.
Reply
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WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 5:01 AM Less than a minute ago http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/article1188481.ece
LOOK @@ here is Ma Rivera. I did not know Rivera's own mama now has alzheimer's. Sad. BUT this article on his widow never got the front page treatment. She's a nurse. These are good hardworking people. Go havea look. She's beautiful, a true love story .. why ?? I would have preferred rivera not be such a great guy and maybe a tiny bit of sympathy for sciple. NO. He STILL took a life...
UPDDATE as fitzgibbon staff hops on...
Viewing 1 - 17 of 17 comments Oldest First Newest First Top Rated
Karl24 Aug 30, 2011 7:09 PM Yesterday Good article Sue. Well thought out.
Reply
Report Abuse 3 11 cab2345 Aug 30, 2011 7:18 PM Yesterday Agreed. This one tears me at both sides. I'd hate to be on that jury. Reply
Report Abuse 3 7 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 8:15 PM Yesterday Lives get ruined for nothing, and no number of prison years will make it right, The life was not ruined for"nothing" .. if you're not in the right mind to kill how do you get in the right mind to find enough booze to get enough wasted????? The story has many flaws. And for instance I know people wounded worse than he who wouldn't harm a fly never mind manage to find enough booze to do this. As well, his family bears responsibility. This is not a hard decision, his family could have called 911 for his protection BEFORE he hurt this other man. Now, after the fact we're all supposed to go: OH MY BAD. I have sympathy and I know he needs help but plenty others get sent to prison even war vets and vietnam vets and nary a blink. What's UP with this one?? Two articles in two days. Too much too little too late. Reply
Report Abuse 11 4 letgo Aug 31, 2011 12:21 AM About 12 hours ago I agree!!!!! Reply
Report Abuse 3 3 fuzzydog Aug 30, 2011 7:18 PM Yesterday Sad all around. Fitz may you succeed.
Reply
Report Abuse 4 2 madge Aug 30, 2011 7:20 PM Yesterday I feel so sorry for both families. I can't imagine what the Rivera family is going through but, I'm sorry, I feel Sciple should get treatment not prison. My son did tell me that it is so true that telling you need help ruins your career. Forget re-enlisting.
Reply
Report Abuse 5 5 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 7:34 PM Yesterday Okay, enough is enough. We have had marines going home committing suicide like it's the thing to do, murdering others and their families like it's normal BUT THIS ???? THIS??? is what we're going to go up in arms against? Don't stand for it Mama Rivera. Your boy DID deserve better. THIS guy has now been revealed by TWO articles barely covering we had a victim DEAD here and every person crowing for him has a loyalty to Robert O'Neill Three (four) green fields the Irish Republican Army headquarters on PLATT st. Including the author of THIS TRASH, sue carleton who drinks there quite regularly. ENOUGH. Fitzgibbons NOMINATED O'NEILL for his current job as USA florida id. Oneill owns the IRA dump. WHAT is sciples relationship to THEM???Something STANKS here.
Reply
Report Abuse 9 4 madge Aug 30, 2011 8:00 PM Yesterday What are you going on about and what has this got to do with Robert O'Neill? Try proof-reading. Reply
Report Abuse 4 4 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 8:28 PM Yesterday madge, it' simple. And I offer your advice back. Fitz tries his cases in the media, he floats them and this hack helps him to see how the sympathy will play out. Same as with debra lafave and another one recently. BUT there can be no mere monetary thang with a military family (where's the dinero?) to supply a media blitz LIKE THIS. Sue, who does have ties and socializes lets say at four green fields provides this trial by media with an agenda in mind. NOW, if Fitzgibbons PUSHED O'Neill for a TOP and undeserved LEO spot BECAUSE Fitz sits on that committee and ONeill owns the bar which Fitz and Sue frequent ... THIS guy or his family fit in that picture SOMEWHERE and it ain't just a lawyer client relationship. Now, unless you have been DEAD you know as do all others in Tamap and Mass and COnn. AND BEYOND to wash dc and other places that O'Neills DUMP of a bar is IRA. if you didn't just google it. This was well covered by SPT sue martin a true journalist. Don't be coy, madge. Reply
Report Abuse 9 3 Penniless Park Aug 30, 2011 10:28 PM Yesterday Down, boy. Now get back on yer meds. Reply
Report Abuse 4 9 hardraada Aug 31, 2011 10:31 AM About 2 hours ago I think he's ON his meds. 'Way too many of them. Reply
Report Abuse 1 1 dk72 Aug 31, 2011 11:49 AM About 1 hour ago Uh, yes, ok. We get it. This is all now an IRA conspiracy!! Get some mental health evaluations before you are the next person we read about in the paper. Reply
Report Abuse 1 2
WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 1:02 PM Less than a minute ago If the shoe fits, wear it, I.R.A. all over it. You think they'd have no interest in a trained killer? wow. oh my the mental health and meds attack. LOL !!!!! But, isn't that what you guys are DEFENDING with sciple? Again, the double standards. nyit nyit ladies.
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Report Abuse WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 7:37 PM Yesterday Seems I remember Sue also sticking up for MADD. Mysteriously, MADD has remained silent on THIS ONE??? What's up with that MADD?
Reply
Report Abuse 5 4 elainec Aug 30, 2011 7:41 PM Yesterday Being a combat veteran is not a license to drive drunk and kill. Sciple's dissociative episodes were likely blackouts. Dig a little deeper and you will probably find Sciple was drinking alcoholically before he ever enlisted. That colossally stupid moment the writer alludes to was more than a moment of stupidity. The victim here, and make no mistake it is not Sciple, deserves all the respect being heaped upon Sciple.
Reply
Report Abuse 8 4 madge Aug 30, 2011 7:55 PM Yesterday If he WERE an alcoholic before he enlisted do you think the Marines would take the blame for it? I believe they have ways to diagnose dissociative disorder without guessing that maybe it's not from drinking. And yes, the victim is Rivera but Sciple needs treatment, not prison. Reply
Report Abuse 6 5 WTFIUWSPT Aug 30, 2011 8:32 PM Yesterday Madge, the marines and every branch of the service has a political agenda. Again you are being coy. What of the Iraq soldier shot in his doorway? How many tours until home to a trailer in zhills? What wounds? Who cares? exactly. The ARMY spent years and a Congressional hearing covering up the MURDER of Pat Tillman. Stop it. Of course the Marines wouold write a fifty thousand page report BUT ONLY if it came from ON HIGH. Reply
Report Abuse 7 2 elainec Aug 30, 2011 8:49 PM Yesterday Do you think he told them? Reply
Report Abuse 0 4 elainec Aug 30, 2011 8:50 PM Yesterday Prison is where criminals get their treatment. Reply
Report Abuse 6 4 kenzo125 Aug 30, 2011 9:14 PM Yesterday The military is no doubt doing major damage to the young people who enlist by continuing in these pointless losing wars. Our servicemen are NOT coming back all-right and they are not coming back to much, it is a repeat of Vietnam. Perhaps the Marines (likewise the entire Military) do deserve some blame here, and elsewhere, for failing to take care of their own and bring attention to red flags that an individual is not functioning properly. Still I see a major problem with allowing PTSD as a defense for criminal activity, it opens up a very big can of worms.
Reply
Report Abuse 1 7 WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 4:55 AM About 8 hours ago kenzo, I was thinking of bringing that up BUT when you've watched these yokels in action long enough you realize THE WOOKIE defense is just for this one guy. Then it's GONE. Reply
Report Abuse 4 1 luckydog Aug 30, 2011 11:20 PM Yesterday The dead man is a victim. So is the Marine. The 'system' failed both of these men.
Reply
Report Abuse 2 10 elainec Aug 30, 2011 11:24 PM Yesterday Sciple is no victim. Nobody poured alcohol down his throat. Reply
Report Abuse 10 5 luckydog Aug 30, 2011 11:26 PM Yesterday There is no mental help available until a crime is committed. Think of how many crimes are because no help was available. The congresswoman being shot is another example. Take the illegals out, and open some mental hospitals, for Americans who need help.
Reply
Report Abuse 1 8 elainec Aug 31, 2011 3:13 AM About 9 hours ago AA is free, and everywhere. Reply
Report Abuse 6 1 letgo Aug 31, 2011 12:28 AM About 12 hours ago this ole boy is gonna walk. I already know.
Reply
Report Abuse 3 2 WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 4:58 AM About 8 hours ago Yes. likely but he's been drunk three times AND GOLFING while he was waiting THIS trial .... so he won't be walking for long... and WHO can GOLF after they've killed someone? WTF??? Seems to me mom and dad sciple know they have a sociopath on their hands and so dad invents things his son SHOULD have said. Let him sober up in prison dad. It might just be time for him to grow up. Reply
Report Abuse 6 1 WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 5:01 AM About 7 hours ago http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/article1188481.ece
LOOK @@ here is Ma Rivera. I did not know Rivera's own mama now has alzheimer's. Sad. BUT this article on his widow never got the front page treatment. She's a nurse. These are good hardworking people. Go havea look. She's beautiful, a true love story .. why ?? I would have preferred rivera not be such a great guy and maybe a tiny bit of sympathy for sciple. NO. He STILL took a life.
Reply
Report Abuse 4 2
WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 1:10 PM Less than a minute ago wow. what kind of person thumbs down info about the WIDOW and the VICTIM's FAMILY???
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Report Abuse Crank 172 Aug 31, 2011 5:12 AM About 7 hours ago If Sciple caused my family this kind of grief, I'd want his balls. He's nothing but a piece of ●●●● no matter what he's done for our Country…
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Report Abuse 8 2 Allen in St Pete Aug 31, 2011 8:10 AM About 4 hours ago A lot of perpetrators have a sad story. But if we start deciding who's sad story ought to give them a pass for killing a guy we are in trouble. The fact that the killer of the innocent was a soldier, well decorated would not allow me to be ok with him going free if he killed my son or daughter. As a society we have to make choices - kill people behind the wheel you gotta pay - err on the side of accountability. And SAVE the it won't bring them back - that logic is a justice killer.
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Report Abuse 1 1 IT IS I Aug 31, 2011 11:22 AM About 1 hour ago RICHARD B. CHENEY is NOT DONG ANYTHING important rightnow.....
he'd CERTAILY BE WILLING to SERVE time for this, wouldnt he?
or GEWORGE W. "DRUNKIE" BUSH?
neither the SOCIOPATH nor THE DRUNK are worth anything to us and wouldnt be missed!!
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Report Abuse 0 1 denise100 Aug 31, 2011 11:23 AM About 1 hour ago This is terrible for both sides. The marines let down yet another serviceman and this family pays the price. The man needs help, not prison, but that does not give the victim's family what they need. No good solution on this one. And wow, the same ranting poster with yet a new name to post by. Can always tell the ramblings of this one.
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LiberalDem Aug 31, 2011 11:45 AM About 1 hour ago Ghee, I wish I had the US Marine Corps to excuse make for me when I was going thru tuff times. But, for most of us with a more mundane existence, divorce, accidents/health issues/hospitalizations, foreclosures, job loss/firings. We just have to tuff it out and if we get plowed and do something stupid, things just get even worse. It's called reality. Buck up young man, and take your medicine. Your life is not over. After 8-12 years in the pen, maybe you'll be right.
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Report Abuse 0 1 justanopinion Aug 31, 2011 11:51 AM About 1 hour ago Because Mr Sciple is a war veteran, he, of all people, should have valued life more than anyone else. He should not have put others in danger by drinking and driving. Whatever mental issues Mr Sciple had, he chose to drive while impared. He should be treated and punished no different than others who drink and drive.
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WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 1:09 PM Less than a minute ago uh oh, Fitz and Breen and O'Neill have the office staffs out on attack and the thumbs'ing. So, someone find out.. what bground does sciple have with the I.R.A. or sons of confederate veterans so closely intertwined w/ the black mafia in Tampa and the regular old mafia? Because for darn sure it's THERE. What is inside a man which makes him fit to GOLF after plowing down another man but not fit to stand up like a man and go to trial? The golfing part really got to me.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CD4QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fm2.tbo.com%2Fcontent%2F2011%2Fmay%2F18%2F181531%2Fbail-revoked-for-marine-captain-charged-in-fatal-w%2F&ei=QvBdTof5Ccbl0QGQoYjMAQ&usg=AFQjCNFPbw80z0MGzjjqVWtCt26CvKipjQ
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WTFIUWSPT Aug 31, 2011 1:13 PM Less than a minute ago http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brandonbar.org%2Ftag%2Fblood-alcohol%2F&ei=QvBdTof5Ccbl0QGQoYjMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHYpUi_vSM0-0xDpOuMtaJTAY2uIQ a massive lapse in judgment? I'd say.
